Works-Based Gospel Exposed: Salvation by Grace, Not Works

Dear Mark,
Thank you for your latest replies. We truly appreciate the spirit in which you are writing. It is refreshing to have a conversation rooted in a genuine desire to know the Scriptures more accurately. We admire your spiritual maturity and humility in being willing to retract the “word-order” argument when you saw it could support the other side. That is commendable and Christ-honoring.
We also don’t mind the lengthy comments at all — we love that you are deeply in the Word and “working out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12). It is a blessing to discuss these things with someone who clearly loves the Lord and desires to honor Him.
One thing we continue to wrestle with from your earlier comments is the idea that trusting in Christ by faith somehow opens the door to boasting. Ephesians 2:9 makes it clear that faith is “not of works, lest any man should boast.” On the other hand, the thought that God specifically chose certain people to be saved while passing by others can easily lead to high-mindedness or pride in one’s “election.”
We see the beauty and simplicity of the gospel this way: God sent His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who did it all for us — even to death on the cross. He tells us that if we believe this gospel and keep it in memory, He will save us and seal us with the Holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 51-58; Ephesians 1:13). What a glorious promise!
We would be very grateful if you would take some time to carefully read and pray over 2 Corinthians 4:3-6 and verses 13-15. It speaks of those who believe not having their minds blinded by the god of this world, and then Paul says, “We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak…” It ties believing directly to the gospel being preached and received.
We especially appreciated this line you wrote:
“So my short answer to the question of the preaching of the gospel is that I believe that the gospel should be proclaimed to ALL people, and rather than trying to coax or persuade them into making a faith decision, we simply proclaim Jesus Christ crucified, resurrected, and the Savior of sinners to all, and let God work in hearts as he will.”
We wholeheartedly agree with proclaiming Christ to everyone and trusting God to do the work in hearts.
Above all, we have learned that God never contradicts Himself. When things appear contradictory, we find it helpful to step back and ask: Who is God speaking to in this passage? What is the context and audience? That principle has brought much clarity in our own study.
Thank you again for the gracious dialogue. We are happy to keep searching the Scriptures together.
In Christ,
Sean and Shalon Ramirez

Dear Truth Matters, Thank you for taking the time to consider and post my thoughts. I commend you for your willingness to hear out a viewpoint that is very much opposite from your own-this quality is not often publicly seen and demonstrates spiritual wisdom, maturity, and Christ-like grace on your part. I will confess that my posts are often perhaps overly lengthy and overly detailed-to me it seems necessary in order to give proper answers due to the complexity of the subject at hand. I also am the type of believer who is interested to understand an opposing viewpoint-even though I may disagree, yet I seek to understand how and why someone else views the scriptures differently on a given subject.
I just had a couple of follow-up thoughts to add to what I have already written. First of all, you had brought up Ephesians 1:14 about the sealing of the Spirit, and I had given my answer and then linked it to Eph. 4:30. The other cross-reference on the sealing that I wanted to add (forgot earlier) is 2 Corinthians 1:22-“Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”.
Also a further thought on Romans 8:28-30 which I used earlier-this passage is commonly seen as God sort of “looking down the corridors of time” & foreseeing who will believe, and so choosing them on that basis. The problem with that is that is not the Biblical definition of the term foreknowledge in Rom. 8:29 (see also 1 Peter 1:2). Compare the word “foreknow” in Rom. 8:29 to Jeremiah 1:5-“Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW thee”. We see thus that the foreknowing in Romans 8:29 is not a cognitive recognitional type of foreknowing, but a relational foreknowing. Thus as I understand it, foreknown equals fore-loved in the relational sense-and 2 Timothy 1:9 & Ephesians 1:4-5 do seem to bear this out.
I just want to say here that I do realize that the doctrinal views which I have defended in this thread DO bring up a lot of questions and seeming paradoxes, but they are only SEEMING to be contradictory on the surface-over time and with continued reading and study of the scriptures these “wrinkles” in our understanding do get flattened out as God further illuminates (if we are truly saved & have his Spirit within us, that is-he guides his people into all truth-John 16:13)-and I believe that this illumination over time has been the case with me personally, but it happened over much time & continual study. And I also do realize that the doctrines I have championed in this thread DO also raise some pretty uncomfortable and unsettling thoughts and questions-For example-doesn’t election to salvation make God seem to be unfair? Romans 9:14-18 answers this. Also, if God in his eternal counsels has already decided to save certain individuals, then what about man’s responsibility? Romans 9:19-26 answers this question also. What about the preaching of the gospel and evangelism? What about those who do not believe? What about other verses & passages like 2 Peter 3:9? (often a proof text for God trying & willing to save every person-I can give a solid answer to the popular view of this verse). What about all of the verses/passages which command men to repent & believe, and which seem to imply man’s responsibility? (for example Acts 17:30-31 & John 3:18) I do recognize all of these & I am not seeking to overlook them or ignore them. Indeed, I have studied both sides of these issues in great detail-it is ALL the word of God, and I believe that by the grace of God I have been given the answers to most or all of the seeming contradictions that the student of scripture eventually encounters along the way. As I said, I believe that God “flattens out the wrinkles” in our understanding over time as we continue in his word (if someone is truly born-again then this WILL happen).
I also wish to declare for the record that I am not without compassion for the lost, though my emphasis on the doctrines of God’s sovereign electing grace might appear that way. Indeed, the very same apostle Paul who penned Romans 8:28-30, Rom. 9:1-26, Eph. 1:3-6, 2 Thess. 2:13, 2 Tim. 1:9, etc., also wrote in Romans 9:1-5 that he had a great burden for the salvation of his countrymen, the Jews-ALL of them, elect or not, and he stated so again in Rom. 10:1. He also, when he stood before king Agrippa in Acts 26, and Agrippa said, “almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian”, responded with, “I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds” The same Paul who taught election to salvation by sovereign grace also showed a burden and compassion for the lost. So my short answer to the question of the preaching of the gospel is that I believe that the gospel should be proclaimed to ALL people, and rather than trying to coax or persuade them into making a faith decision, we simply proclaim Jesus Christ crucified, resurrected, and the Savior of sinners to all, and let God work in hearts as he will. The Lord knoweth them that are his-and when the gospel is faithfully proclaimed, God will work both in the evangelist to preach, and in the elect hearers to truly believe-he will open their hearts as he did with Lydia-Acts 16:14. So we faithfully proclaim Christ from the scriptures, and God will effectually draw and call those that are his. We do not know who the elect are until and if they believe, and we are not supposed to know ahead of time-we simply proclaim Christ, and let God work as he will.
Thank you again for considering my thoughts and posts, and I will be very happy to give an answer to any questions that you may yet have about these seemingly sticky issues. Peace in Christ, Mark

Dear Truth Matters, Greetings again-not sure if you received my last response where I gave some answers to your questions regarding the verses you mentioned-Gen. 15:6, 1 Cor. 15:2, 1 Tim. 2:4, etc. If you didn’t receive it and are still interested I can re-answer those.
I would like to say that you are correct about one thing-this thread should indeed be about the goal of learning the word of God better rather than merely listing verses back and forth as you said. I will also say something else here-I have been doing a fair bit of study of pertinent verses on our subject at hand and I recall having begun this thread by applying a sort of “word-order” rule of interpretation or way of looking at John 5:24. Having looked at a number of verses I will concede that the same “word-order” rule, when applied to other verses, including some verses you mentioned, does seem to support your view. So I will retract my “word-order” argument as a proof for my view (if & whenever I am wrong, I am willing to admit it; I seek always to continue to adjust my thinking to the word of God as I come to understand it more clearly, and seek to bring my understanding into line with what the word says rather than attempt to “bend” the scriptures to fit my understanding or theology as so many out there do). An example: the “word-order” rule which I initially used with John 5:24, when applied to Romans 1:16 and Romans 10:13, would seem to favor your view-that salvation follows belief. I do still believe that faith is a gift from God rather than a contribution of man to salvation; meaning that according to my view, salvation is what is nowadays being called “monergistic” rather than “synergistic”- this just means that I see the scriptures as teaching that salvation is not a cooperative effort with man contributing anything, including faith, otherwise man would have something to boast of and then salvation would depend upon whatever contribution man makes (in this case, faith) instead of upon God"s grace alone and upon the finished work of Christ alone. So I guess the only way to be sure which view is correct is to resort back to the clear statements made in scripture, for example, where the Lord Jesus says that no man can come to him except the Father draw him-John 6:44,65, etc., and that man’s will is bound by his fallen nature-John 8:34, etc., and Ephesians 2:1&5-“dead in trespasses & sins”, etc. and also 2:8-9-“by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”; also other verses I gave earlier such as Phillipians 1:29 (given unto you to believe on Christ), Acts 18:27 (“believed through grace”) etc. I welcome your thoughts, and as you said, threads like this should be about searching the word together and learning rather than about debating. All believers are still involved in the process of being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2); none of us are “there yet”. Peace in Christ, Mark

short PS-I forgot to address Ephesians 1:13 which you had mentioned-“Having believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise” my answer: the sealing is not the same thing as the new birth-the new birth comes before believing, and is necessary in order to believe as I showed earlier; the sealing then comes after believing-compare Eph. 4:30-“sealed unto the day of redemption”-different thing than the new birth.
As to your question, “why does God not predestinate & choose every single person to be saved”-Romans 9:1-26 gives the answer-because it is apparently not his purpose to do so-that is what the text says-“vessels of wrath fitted to destruction”, “vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory”. It is commonly asserted that Romans 9 does not refer to eternal salvation, but I would call your attention to verses 8 & 26 (again, CONTEXT) which definitely show that the issue at hand in the passage is, who is a child of God verses who is not. When the further context of Romans 9:27-11:10 is considered, it becomes even more obvious that it is indeed eternal salvation which is in view in the passage (again, context). This Bible truth that God decides who will be saved rather than man is a disturbing concept to most, especially to church-goers; nevertheless that’s what the scripture (God) says.

Dear Truth Matters: Thank you for your inquiries and response to my posts. Before I proceed to give answer to the scripture texts you have given, I need to clarify (should have done this earlier) that if my writing tone seems to be “harsh” or “militant”, that it is in no way directed against either of you in a personal way; my tone is directed only against the doctrine of faith bringing the new birth (aka in theology “decisional regeneration”) which I have come to see is not at all what I see the scriptures teaching. I understand your position very well-I once believed it myself as you currently do, and it is by far the most common and most popular view taught in the visible Protestant evangelical & fundamentalist churches. Now, on to the passages you mentioned. These are easy to answer. First of all, Genesis 15:6/Romans 4:3/Gal. 3:6-“Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness”. With all due respect, your statement, “God blessed & counted Abraham righteous because he believed” shows that you have misunderstood what God has revealed here. Abraham was NOT made righteous BECAUSE he believed-this would be Abraham making himself right with God by his faith, i.e. faith becomes a work of man rather than a work of God. The passage is properly understood when seen as evidential instead of conditional-that is, Abraham’s faith was the evidence that God had already done the work of grace in his heart which caused him to believe-see the earlier verse references I gave in previous posts. We must always interpret scripture by scripture. Abraham’s faith did not accomplish his salvation; his salvation resulted in his faith, which justified him in the evidential sense-he was seen to be, or shown to be, righteous before God because of his faith, but God had already justified him as to him being right with God. The term “justified” is used in more than one sense in scripture-I am justified in God’s sight by his grace alone through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus alone-Romans 3:24-but I am OUTWARDLY justified in the sight of others by my faith which is the evidence that God has bestowed upon me the new birth, otherwise I would not have believed. Note again Acts 13:48-“as many as were ordained to eternal life believed”. They were not ordained because they believed; they believed because they were ordained. Jesus gave the same order in John 10:26 to the Pharisees-“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep”. Again, note that he did not say, “you are not my sheep because you don’t believe”; he said, “ye believe not because ye are not of my sheep”. He gave the same truths back in John 6:44 & 65-“no man can come to me (believe, compare 6:35) except the Father draw him” and 6:65-“no man can come unto me except it were given unto him of my Father.” No person will ever believe on Christ unless & except God cause them to, which he does for his elect by bestowing the new birth, which gives them the spiritual eyes to see & ears to hear the truth of the gospel, then, because they have a new Divine nature implanted in them by God (2 Cor. 5:17, 1 Peter 1:23) they then believe. Remember the texts I gave earlier-John 3:19-20-natural unsaved unregenerate man hates the light & will not come to the light (not of his own volition, if the choice is left up to him he will continue to reject God unless God changes his heart & nature via the new birth.) Remember also Ephesians 2:1&5-man is spiritually dead in trespasses & sins-dead toward God, & cannot & will not choose Christ except God change his heart & bestow the new nature (new birth) upon him-only then will he believe. Yes, man has a will to choose in the sense of things such as “what will I eat for lunch” etc., but man in his unregenerate fallen unsaved state has no will TOWARD GOD-his will is governed by his wicked nature (Jer. 17:9), which is to hate God-Rom. 1:30-and his fallen nature is comprised of a carnal mind which is enmity against God-Rom. 8:7. Jesus made it crystal clear by saying “whosoever committeth sin (all unsaved people) is the SERVANT OF SIN” this proves what I said earlier about man’s will being governed by his fallen God-hating nature-his will is slave to his sin-nature, and he will remain in that state unless God first changes his nature via the new birth-see again Ezekiel 36:26-27. God must remove the heart of stone and bestow an heart of flesh before an individual will repent & believe on Christ, otherwise man in his “dead in trespasses & sins” nature will remain so & continue to follow that nature & course.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2-again, with all due respect, you have misunderstood the verses to mean that the gospel is what saves. The gospel does not save; it brings life & immortality TO LIGHT-2 Tim. 1:10. The gospel is the good news for all of God’s people of the salvation which has already been wrought on their behalf-it does not bring salvation, it brings the KNOWLEDGE of that salvation. In Acts 10, Cornelius was already fearing God & giving alms to the people & praying always-things which according to the scriptures, no unregenerate unsaved person ever does (Rom. 3:11&18) he was already seeking God, which no one does in & of themselves apart from God’s doing the work of grace in their heart, which then evidences itself by good works as Cornelius was already doing. So Peter bringing the gospel did not bring salvation, it brought the knowledge of it-the knowledge of how God had already saved Cornelius by the finished work of Christ at the cross-Rom. 5:9-10-justified by his blood, reconciled to God by the death of his Son, Titus 3:7-justified by his grace, not by my doing or faith. Same thing with Lydia in Acts 16-the text says that she already feared God-something no unregenerate person does; then when Paul shared the good news of the gospel it says of Lydia “WHOSE HEART THE LORD OPENED, THAT SHE ATTENDED the things which were spoken of Paul”. This is the only way a person can believe-the Lord must first open the heart via the new birth. Same thing with the Phillipian jailor in the same chapter-he ran in & fell down trembling before Paul & Silas-why? Because God had already gotten a hold of his heart & bestowed the new birth & nature change, otherwise he would not have done what he did. He was already believing & was afraid-but he hadn’t yet heard the good news of the gospel, which Paul proceeded to share with him. Paul’s answer in 16:31 by the way, is not a “how-to” formula of how to “get” saved by believing; Paul was simply reassuring this newly born baby in Christ before sharing the gospel of his salvation.
I would encourage you to once again study through the book of Acts-notice that nowhere in any sermon that the apostles preached was any sort of “decision” for Christ advocated or called for. Did Paul make a decision on the Damascus road? Did the Gentiles in Cornelius’s house make a decision?-no indeed, “WHILE PETER YET SPAKE THESE WORDS, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word” God didn’t even give them time for a decision-the significance of this is often overlooked. In Acts 2, after Peter finished his sermon, the text says that they were “pricked in their heart” (work of grace in the heart by the Spirit) and THEN they said, “men and brethren, what shall we do?” God had already just regenerated them, then they asked the question out of a changed heart & new nature. How do I know? Because scriptures teach in many other passages that no unsaved unregenerate person would do so-e.g. Rom. 3:11&18, Psalm 10:4, John 3:19-20, etc. Also, Paul’s satement in Acts 13:38-39 is often misunderstood-it is a declaration, not an invitation. Notice how he says (and to whom he addresses it!) “Men & brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, AND WHOSOEVER AMONG YOU FEARETH GOD, UNTO YOU is the word of this salvation sent”-verse 26. Then in 38-39 he says that “through this man (Jesus) is PREACHED unto you (proclaimed, announced, heralded, not offered) the forgiveness of sins”-then notice how in the next verse he TURNS it by making it IMPERSONAL-"And by him all that believe (not all that WILL believe) ARE (not “will be”) justified from all things". The one who is believing has already been justified at the cross-compare John 6:47: "He that BELIEVETH (present tense, “is believing”) on me HATH (not “will then have” but already has) everlasting life"-the life preceeds the believing. Same with 1 John 5:1-“Whosoever believeth (present tense) that Jesus is the Christ IS born of God”-IS born already, not “will be” upon believing.
Now, on to 1 Tim. 2:4-“God, who will have all men to be saved & to come unto the knowledge of the truth” I have dealt with this passage many times; it is a commonly used text to “prove” the position that you are currently advocating. The problem is (again, with all due respect) you have misunderstood it (probably because a pastor taught you so) and are not seeing it in its proper CONTEXT. The key here is to look at the verse in its context & not to isolate it. The whole passage of 2:1-6 must be looked at to see it in proper context. In verse 4 you have “all men”. If you will notice, you have the same “all men” in verse 1. Do you think that the “all men” of verse 1 and the “all men” of verse 4 probably mean the same thing? Yup! So what does the “all men” of verse 1 mean? Answer: it is qualified & defined by verse 2-“for kings, and for all that are in authority”. So the answer is that Paul is speaking of all CLASSES or KINDS of men-kings, paupers, rich, poor, free, slave, etc. So in verse 4 it is the same thing- he is referring to all men without DISTINCTION, not all men without exception. He is also referring to Gentiles, not just Jews. How do I know this? One day as I was reading Romans 11, verses 12 & 15 were lit up in neon to me-“world” equals Gentiles, or all men without distinction rather than all men individually without exception. This explains all of the “world” passages such as John 1:29, 3:16, 4:42, 1 John 2:2, etc. It also explains another commonly misused text in John 12:32-“I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me”. Again, John 12:32 is commonly misunderstood because it has been lifted out of context. The situation in the chapter if you recall was that Greeks had come up to the feast and said to Phillip “sir we would see Jesus”. There is your clue to understanding 12:32-The Lord is saying that he will draw Gentiles, & not just Jews only. He is reiterating the same thing he said in John 10:16-“other sheep I have (Gentiles) which are not of this fold, them also I must bring”. Once again, all without distinction-elect out of every tribe, tongue and nation-rather than every single human being without exception as is commonly misunderstood & taught. Again, scripture interpreted by scripture rather than by my own reasoning.
I have come over time & study of the scriptures to understand them as teaching something very, very different than what is being taught in most visible churches-that God the Father chose & predestinated a specific group of people in eternity past-(Eph. 1:4-11, 2 Thess. 2:13-14, Rom. 8:28-30, 9:1-26)a people made up of a remnant out of every tribe, tongue and nation-Rev. 5:9-a patchwork quilt if you will-and he gave these people to God the Son to redeem and save at the cross-John 6:37, 39, 17:2-which the Lord Jesus ACTUALLY accomplished at Calvary-he actually SAVED his people and actually bore their iniquities (Matt. 1:21, Isaiah 53:11, 1 Peter 2:24) not merely died to make all men “saveable” by their own will-John 1:13, James 1:18, 1 Peter 1:23-and in the individual lives of each and every one of those people, at the time and place of his choosing, God the Holy Spirit effectually regenerates them by bestowing the new birth (John 5:21), and effectually calls them out of darkness into light, and turns them from the power of satan unto God-Acts 26:18, Acts 2:39 (as many as the Lord our God shall call), 1 Cor. 1:24-“unto them which are called”, etc. Salvation is entirely the work of God for man-it is ALL of God, from start to finish, from eternity past to eternity future-Rom. 8:28-30. If even believing is contributed by man’s will or power, then that becomes the weak link in the chain, and then the entirety of the whole thing then depends on that one weak link instead of upon the sovereign grace of God and the finished work of Christ. I will leave you with some Bible math-grace plus works equals WORKS-always!-Romans 11:5-6. If ANY work or contribution of man is introduced into the equation-even believing-then salvation depends upon man’s believing rather than upon God alone, which then gives man something to boast of-Eph. 2:9. To God alone be the glory!